Massively multiplayer games are not new. The first true massively multiplayer game was a text-only virtual world called MUD, put together by Richard Bartle and Roy Trubshaw in 1978. This little window of dizzying text descriptions was a far cry visually from the seductively lush 3D virtual worlds of today, but it was enough. Enough to get the genre started, and enough to get armchair designers across the world to imagine the possibilities, and debate philosophical matters of game design. One of these questions, still asked today, is whether or not massively multiplayer environments should strive to be games or to be worlds.
Advocates of the world philosophy see the space as a simulation or a sandbox. Fans of this viewpoint favor freedom and realism above all else – players have the ability to use and abuse almost anything around them, including other players. In ‘world’ MMOs, players tend to have a wide range of possible actions, most of which have relatively little depth. The depth of the world MMO comes from the interactions – players are urged to explore the world, and to find their own fun. The world MMO hates artificial constraints like classes or level requirements.
The game philosophy is quite the opposite, of course. Advocates of this view favor fun and balance more than anything. The game MMO is often described as being more like a theme park than a virtual world – player activity is tightly controlled, in such a way to help maximize the chance the player will have a fun, balanced and interesting combat experience and, in general, not be nasty to each other. The game MMO has no problem with introducing arbitrary rules to provide a tight, visceral gaming experience. Players can perform fewer actions, but these actions tend to have greater depth (such as a deeper, more balanced combat game).
I have had a long history of making MUDs and massively multiplayer games, and in working with and building them. I’ve come to the conclusion that both extremes have serious design problems. Worlds offer great freedom, but that freedom comes at a great price: they tend to be harsh, and offer the new player little in the sense of goals and direction. Many players are overwhelmed by the freedom, or can never find the fun. Often, a world is only as good as the people who have arrived before you – depending on that level of serendipity makes designers nervous.
On the flip side, pure games have their problems too. Freedom is a true part of the magic of MMOs, and artificial constraints and mechanics can undermine the fiction and the sense that you are living in the virtual world – and when you have a brand as rich and textured as Star Wars™, the last thing you want to do is undermine it. Even worse, the depth and visual splendor of Star Wars™: The Old Republic would be completely lost if players couldn’t jump off the rails and just live in the space from time to time.
I’ve long advocated that moderation is the way to go, and I believe on The Old Republic we are successfully travelling a middle path, a centrist path that takes the strengths of both: provide a directed and balanced game experience inside a lush, free-form Star Wars world.
But I also believe that the game vs. world debate is missing a third element: community.
Community is the crazy notion that massively multiplayer games are more interesting when other players matter. Advocates of this viewpoint savor competition and cooperation above all else. Community-driven players want, above all else, to be able to interact and gather with other players, in a civil way. They share ideals with the other schools of thought: community-driven players tend to value balance and fairness, but they also want the freedom to express themselves and interact with others.
To me, as an MMO designer, community is the whole ball of wax. Let’s face it, if you wanted to play just a ‘game’, you’d be off playing a single player roleplaying game. If you wanted a ‘world’, maybe you’d play a life-simulation game. But community – well, that’s the whole ‘massively multiplayer’ part of MMO. When you look at it this way, ‘community’ is at least as important as ‘game’ or ‘world’ in this debate.
And probably more so.
Consider our multiplayer dialogue system. The Old Republic is in every way shape and form an MMO, though if a player desires to, they can solo all the way to max level – they'll be missing some great content, but we don’t want players to feel they have to group. But we really want them to want to. As such, this has been an area of ripe experimentation for us, and has led us down some fruitful paths. Multiplayer conversations, where players can cooperate or compete to respond, has proven to be fun (and often hilariously so), in our playtesting (and no, another player cannot jack your dark side score with his response). But we’re not satisfied with just extrinsic rewards – we’re now experimenting with rewards that are unlocked for helping party members with class quest objectives, and we’re generally pleased with how it’s playing.
Crafting is another area where we’ve talked a lot about community. The systems design team is not satisfied with some other crafting systems that we’ve seen, where many players craft almost exclusively for themselves. We’ve spent quite a bit of time discussing how to ensure that crafters – true dedicated crafters – can make a name for themselves and be important in their community. But that is a discussion for a future letter.
In fact, you’ll probably be hearing a lot more from me and the other systems designers in the coming months as we talk about the systems and features that are getting locked down inside of the game to the degree that we’re comfortable talking about them. Like I said earlier, The Old Republic is an MMO, and it’s these systems and features that really help define that fact. You’ll likely hear a lot of design theory around them. As we do so, you’ll likely see a common theme: us constantly asking ourselves “Is this feature better because it leverages other players and the community?”
Damion Schubert
Principal Lead Systems Designer
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damion schubertCOMMENTS
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I haven't seen a better crafting system in any of the mmos I've played than the one in SWG. Being able to gather resources and put stuff together was really cool. The worst/best part was the possiblity of a critical fail/success when you were just about done. That to me is the creative process, and I haven't seen that matched yet. But here's hoping.... As far as community goes, in an mmo obviously that's essential. That said, I REALLY hope BioWare has some serious smackdown ready for gold spammers. They are the bane of mmos and ruin game economies and the whole feeling of a real community. Plus they're extremely annoying, too. :) Throw them into a nice deep pit, like a sarlac, where they'll 'experience a new definition of pain and suffering as they are slowly digested over a thousand years'. |
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its is a better aliance if we use some sniper troops and then we put som aprentice jedis at the acedemi jedi every day so that dosen´t happens again like the third movie |
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The original SWG crafting was spot on and dont think it could be matched and where people could design there own shops from scratch, and could customise there own gear, but it did create alot of lag with houses and mining stations being placed everywhere on planets and every time u went passed a house on a speeder it loaded a shop and would spend 10 mins while 50 shops loaded up as the same time. it will be intresting to see how they tackle the crafting problem. perhaps spacestations may be the answer with a small shop promonade may be the solution paying a rent fee to keep the shop keepers active? or perhaps 1 world that houses could only be placed? |
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I very much agree with the MMO concepts and preferred balanced goals described here by the Principal Lead Systems Designer of SWTOR. I currently play a sandbox MMO and wish they would include some more profound concepts and animation. All in all, I am waiting for SWTOR to open its doors and I can't wait. I also envy your work :P Cheers |
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In addition : I hope to see some play-driven events or evolution. I have seen no MMO yet (though I don't know many) where player choices and overall actions have an impact or change the world. Easy example : If 80 % of players choose to be allied to the Sith and manage to put 70 % of Republic players in a part of the galaxy, writers and the concept team could have upcoming events and patches to represent change in the world. I'm not giving the most profound example here, but you see the drift. |
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The Sith have Returned, Heroes have Fallen...But many shall rise... The Republic Sovereignty is one of those that has Risen, and we need new Heroes to join us. You may be a Young Jedi, but you will be trained at our Academy or perhaps you'll be taken by a Master. Who knows, you may be selected for a Special Postion. As a Trooper, you'll join our Armies and assist our Jedi in the Future Battles to come, but you won't be alone, you won't be untrained. Many of you will have the same goal...Peace... As a Smuggler, you will do whatever means to make a Mission a little bit easier with infiltration and such. If your good, you'll get yourself a Girl. In the Sovereignty we have Divisions which you will be put into such as the Trooper Division, Honor Guards, the most elite of our Armies will be put there. Many join us Every day becuase they are Loyal, They have Courage, and they have Hope. Those are True Heroes in the Republic, why won't you join us? Intrested? Befriend me and post on my Profile. |
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Hey, what about the species of your character? If all Jedi Knights and all sith warriors will be humans...Kinda disapointing, if you will not be able to be a Kel Dor, or Nautolan, they are very cool :) |
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Remember,watch out how you trust because you never know what is going to happened. |
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All of this is true. I was viewing the content on this website and was becoming very let down due to this feeling that everything will be very linear and very little free roaming and exploring. I saw the space combat video and almost shed a tear of disappointment because what happened to dogfighting and being able to detach "from the rails from time to time and live in the space"? Did you guys already forget your goal of Star Wars Universe Immersion? How immersed will I be when I cant even turn my ship around and look behind me? How will I be able to soak in the incredible view and all that time you guys put into designing these amazing looking planet systems when im forced to look straight ahead and never stop for a moment and take it all in? I seriously hope you are serious about not being "on rails" and able to just "live in the space". This developer gave me some hope with their words and foresight.... I pray it goes the way you invision it... Cause what I see in the trailers isnt the case... |
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Taranisi
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Are you purposely saying the exact opposite of what this game is? |
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one of the best things about a morg is the social aspect, and I hope the developers work this in. I played galaxies before the change and it was great to come in from battle and chill with people while recuperating. The game was designed in various ways that you HAD to interact with others to one degree or another. When i went to wow I was like "where does everyone hang out?" people are at the capital cities but for the most part it's just a collection of individuals at the same place like being on a train with a bunch of people, no one is really talking for the most part. So as I know you developers read these posts please build into the game a NEED for players to interact other than for an instance or group |
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Join the neutral. which mean you are both light/darks side and we can defeat both side. Not only if you are both side you can get both powers. One last thing we can become masters in every world. PS:JOIN jedikenshilee and jedipredator May the force be with you all |
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ShotokanJudo, on the other side of the coin, as much of a laugh as it may be interacting with players socially there's other side where players boot people from parties, argue for items (it's sad all of the time) and hang out in certain places just to show off gear, this is why wow mugs me off alot at times. Thus I would like the story option where I can go away from other gamers for a break, I quit wow because it lacked story but I'll remember the important lesson of keep a group of friends that are tightly knit and avoid helping kids in dungeons, it's like listening to a Disney soundtrack consistanley, alot of whining, chilcish moments and you're happy when it's over. Peace Dude |
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The best crafting system is hands down SW Galaxies before they ruined the game with their upgrade. All other crafting systems are to simple and rely more on money for supplies than figuring anything out. I had friends in SWG that played pretty much to craft and see what they could make, no other game can really say that. Hint: Bioware, give the crafters a reason to play again! |
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Lol, man im gonna backstabbin and friendmakin and all sorts of stuff. Community is a great form of middle ground that i also believe is missing in MMOs. Also What you said earlier about freedom is true. Even though im a pretty high lvl on Runescape its boring cause there's no story even remotely and even though i also got good on WoW, it even then got boring cause all you do is, Get Money, Get levels, Raid. Then make a new character and repeat. But this is gonna be amazing because of the depth, cause like i said, im gonna be rising to powa, regardless of anyone else Lol, which in this game is actually possible. Oh ya and sorry to write this big paragraph lol. |
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After playing wow since its creation, this is the only 'name' that would take me away from it. been a huge fan of star wars since i first saw the films back when i was 4. even got every book that has been published. I'm a star wars nerd and bloody proud of it. |
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Hi. i love ur graphics, designs, dialogs and all that good stuff. Especially im being blown out by the space battle mod, thats just insane. The only thing is that this game doesnt look realistic compare to the movies. The characters walk towards their opponents while being shot at and nothing happens, they look like wooden inflexible dolls, common guys.. In the movies the main characters always move, hide and not just stand and shoot back, always something happens to their body position. Overall i think this game rocks. keep up the good work. |
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Good read... I think it is very smart that you (Damion Schubert) think this way (in the middle) Because I feel that this is the reason that the mmo community is shunned by a large number of the "other gamers"... If you keep things more open and bring in the best of both worlds then you will have a higher fan/player base... imho... P.S plz plz plz make a larger amount of customizable options for gear and character so you feel unique in the sw world/Galaxy and not running around seeing clones of your self, it really kills a game and the experience... GUI looks good and let me in beta toooo.. ;) |
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I would really like to see a crafting video. The leap from Kotor 1 to Kotor 2 was great. I'd like to see what bioware will do with a mmorpg craft system. |
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Yeah, That would be great!:) |
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ya, totaly awesome!!! |
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I can't wait until this swtor comes out! it looks so awesome. |
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I know Spring needs to hurry up |
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trust your team but only trust your team mates that trust you the creators said do can be your freinds,girl/boy freind or your foe so be careful when you treat your freinds in the game |
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{ they'll be missing some great content} I highly disagree with this, i have played several online mmo's and when you group its all fun and games, eventually everyone goes their own seperate ways and even backstabs you greatly, im glad i will be able to Solo this game to the highest level and for me content isnt everything, if you join people your agreeing to how that person treats and backstabs you. Trust No One, those are words i will live and will play by. I have seen to many people team up only to be betrayed at the last boss, this is a shame, for that trust is noe broken and lost tore from the helper and for what? Just so some guy can need an item then leave another in the dark, For too long has this been happening to people, I do hope this game is not like that and never will be. As for the Community, to me other players don't and will not make or break this game for me. I will lean upon my own shoulders, my own strength, wisdom, knowledge, insight, love. Not yours! |
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Spoken like a true Sith, i am just glade i have not experienced the "backstabbing" of a community as you, i have also been playing MMOs for a while. I am also glade i am going to be a Jedi, where cooperation is a way of life. |
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it's funny that someone so bent on not playing the multiplayer would even bother posting on the community site. |
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I am a very social gamer and love both good, challenging gameplay and exploration. However, one of the biggest failings of community that most games fall into is that almost every one degenerates the social aspect into the 'power guild', where people sign up for a raid, show up on Vent, and only one guy gets to speak while people grind through 4 hours of instance. Even on games with pickup groups, a lot of runs tend to devolve into "Everyone should know what they're doing, so shut up and do it". I don't know what TOR holds at the moment, but I really hope they can keep the social aspect in the MMO. Things like learning who other players are. The fact that the game has traditional roles makes me think this is an danger already (you're the tank, tank's do X). I'm not sure what the solution is to stopping the hardcore power players from steamrolling every group, but I hope you guys are paying attention to it and seeing how it can be reduced. All that said, everything I've seen so far looks like it's going to encourage fun. I don't know who's going to want to strut around the Star Wars universe without getting into character, but we'll see! |
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im sooooooooooooooooooooooooo excited for the game 2 come out im going 2 be a sith inquisotr |
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i agree, i hope you guys can make it so that every skill can be used so that if you dont have a certain combo of skills you wont be considered "gibbled" and thus are not aloud to group in this raid yadda yadda. oh and pls let me test! :D |
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im sooooooooooooooooooooooooo excited for the game 2 come out im going 2 be a sith inquisotr |
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xxxmacncheesexxx
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You're so excited you had to post it three times. Nice. |
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im sooooooooooooooooooooooooo excited for the game 2 come out im going 2 be a sith inquisotr |
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I just hope that the game is everything that it promises to be. It looks like it's going to be awesome. |
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Ok i cant wait for this game to come out its gonna be so freakin awesome. but im freakin out because i cant stop thinkin about it. what is something i can do to wait for it. im not gonna go play wow or anything bbecause it just sucks. so plz pm me for some ideas or things yall do to wait just plz pm me i need help lol XD |
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drink beer & sleeze on chicks or get a job |
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The game seems really awsome. I am a future trooper. Soldier heart and soul. Any of my trooper brotherin, i would be honored to aid and support you all when this game launches. And the war begins. |
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The game looks so cool! The jedi temple will be rebuilt and we will destroy they sith academy! Kill the sith! Rid the world of darkness! KILL! MWAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHHHAAAAA! (That`s a happy laugh, not and evil one). |
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This blog is spot-on. The fact that a player can max his/her toon soloing is a good thing. Because after a full day of, say... RL crimefighting - one may not be in a mood to communicate directly with others, but still want to get lost in the Star Wars ambience. If one prefers to settle in and do mundane but fun game-related stuff (crafting/farming) that doesn't require anything more than time to unwind, a favorite beverage and the iPod blasting in the background... it's nice to know they can. But what I'm anxious to see is what teaming options will be available in SWTOR. I closed beta'd STO and was greatly disappointed with it. Among other things, grouping up is klunky and there are many places in the STO "world" where grouped players will separate whilst starting an instanced episode... and the players won't know about it until it's too late. In the MMO genre, WoW is the 800lb gorilla and their new random grouping system is a nice compliment to LFG & friends/guild-grouped runs. Another point in community play is instancing. GW (I beta'd that game as well) is open-ended in towns but the other 99% of the environment is instanced. So wandering about and serendipidously teaming up with someone who looks like they could use a hand can't happen. In that respect, I REALLY like WoW because instancing is minimized to special locations / occasions, leaving the vast majority of the environment available for open-ended PvE and PvP play. Friends lists grow that way, so I consider open-ended gameplay to be a necessary "community enhancement" tool. How will SWTOR's grouping mechanisms play out? |
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is this gonna be lke guild wars where when you enter an area only npc and your party is there |
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so with the comunity aspect does it mean when im doing a quest with a freind he can talk to the quest giver and add his input? |
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I can see a few crafting ideas. Like class specific crafting. Jedis: can customize their lightsaber Bounty Hunters: Traps and gadgets Trooper: Explosives? Smuggler: ??? I havnt thought alot about it but im certain either Bioware or the community can think of somethings. And im saying these are just class specific professions that is unique to each class (and that benefits to their class only). |
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I know it's an old post but I have to say... Crafting is a HUGE part of MMOs for me. That was the best thing about SWG, I loved how in depth the crafting system was and how if you put a lot of your points into the crafting trees, you could make serious coin selling your items. The in game economy is so important and being able to craft high level gear is VERY important IMHO... :) Anyways, I trust the guys at BioWare and from playing their previous games I have very high hope for this! |
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I'm so incredibly impressed with this .. as if i'm not already in love with all things star-wars , But to take the MMO from text based questing to actually have a character "tell you " what needs to be done is something I've been waiting for i always thought these characters should talk and not have the player just read the text and truly get a feel of the atmosphere. |
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Very interesting thoughts. I fully agree with the community aspect, I would love to see a lot of player vs world with team/party cooperation and coordination like in many other mmorpgs. |
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I was never much for crafting in any MMO, I did appreciate the work of others and was happy to pay for any and everything player made. What I enjoyed most was exploration, all the little nooks and crannys. Everquest, though flawed in many ways (although it was great at the time) was wonderful for exploration. You could spend a entire eve just exploring out some new areas. I enjoy mixed mobs in the same area, as in I am fighting lev 20's and walk around a corner to find myself hauling ***** back out of there being chased by 40's. The whole, this entire area is 10's, then way over there that map is 20's etc gets old. It also creates tons of dead map/zones later in the games lifespan. I really liked the comment made about random encounters with other players as well. I can't tell you how fun it was during serious exploration in some hidden little remote area to come across another player doing the same thing. Share info with, team up on the spot for a deeper look in to a area, or just someone to chuck it up with. Little things that made me smile, killing NPC guards that players would run to for help only to find them dead and be slaughtered themselves because no guards to kill their mob on em. The fact you could attack any NPC was most fun, though usually fell in to disaster and bad faction. I hope methods are in place to reduce spamming of items or money for real cash. That stuff is so old and annoying. To combat that, many games went to bound items on the chars, but I miss being able to hand off or sell the items as you grew out of them. I hope all the testers do their part and report report report to have a fairly pain free launch. So many times I have watched things go right to hell just after launch. A year goes by before launch issues are hammered out. Reboots, crash to desktop, etc. As long as there is tons of feedback and they listen to it all, I think this game stands a fair chance of being something great as well as lasting. I hope it stresses higher end rigs as well, though completely playable on your avg setup. Not that it will ever happen, but native support for multiple monitors would be nice for those of us that run 'em. |
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one thing for me i personally love games with crafting that is what i like to do be able to just spend my day making armor or mining ore or making jewlery etc. this game will be so much awsomer if there is an intricate crafting system. i have played many mmo's but the ones that keep me hooked are the games with crafting. for example WoW had a horrible crafting system, you travel to a mountain to mine ore and you insted spend 20 min trying to kill enemies that prevent you from mining. so with that in mind i was hoping for a planet or an area with lots of raw material to collect with minimal enemies so i can go about my time without the destraction of enemies. another game that has a decent crafting system is... well i hate to say it but i must... runescape. the combat is lacking but the crafting kept me in for 3 years. one thing that the game has is the Grand Exchange, where you can drop off goods and collect the money from it later so you can collect a load of goods put in on the market and go back and collect more material. this game needs that in the main faction cities. what i dont like is an auction system like WoW where u can set the price you want but ultimatly you get nothing if its too high. The GE in runescape had a 5% increase or decrease in the market price so the price that the seller puts it on is not too high. |
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I've been waiting for an MMO to impliment an apprentace mechanic where a high level character gets incentive to name another player as an apprentace and vice versa for the low level character. Will SWTOR be that game? With an emphasis on community, I don't see why it can't be. If the level range is (just for example) 1-60, a brand new Jedi Knight class might spend the first 5 levels bumping around with starting quest, but then the option would open up to be accepted by a master. The Option might open up at lvl 60 for a Jedi Knight class to take on an apprentace. And the bond might be broken at 30-40 leaving the max level to find a new apprentace. Special incentives for the higher level to actually acomplish things with the low level would be ideal. This could be done with all classes. |
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thats a really good idea and im loving the development but i think the lvl which you can gain an aprentice should be lower becauyse remember in the movie where not the strongest jedi can become a master for example obi-one trained anyken right after quigon was killed so i think the lvl that the master can start training should be lower. like if the lvl cap was 60 he could start training at lvl 45 and the aprentice would go off on his own at lvl 35-45 |
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I come from playing EVE where u can talk about a sandbox game where all choices are left to the player, in regards to world MMO's there is a lot to win from keeping choices open and letting players define their own game and experience. The problem however is that there are no direct paths to be chosen so it would be a huge advantage if SWTOR had some form of game mechanic that would give early players a goal and a path during the early stages og game play and giving older players a more free role.. In regard to specific questions i sincerly hope that choices such as attacking a character on an open street for exampel wont be blocked by a message " U cannot do this". Cause if that happens we are forced into constricting game mechanics that will hinder any form of sandbox experience and free will that is vital to the fun and pleasure of playing.. As for the idear of having it like WAR, with battlegrounds.. I also remember the areas that were impossible to win back and that literally sucked.. LOTRO ( Lord of The Rings Online) they made a single pvp combat stage and that was too little and too small and made it impossible for proper pvp due to the fact that everyone was in bands og 50+ fighting another band of 50+ and then it is a matter of internet speed, RAM and graphics.. I am hoping for some form of sandbox experience and hopefully there will be simulation to guide u along, but we will just have to wait and see.. I really enjoy the system from EVE where u do skill training, it doesnt sound like much, but it gives the persistant player and advantage and it also brings in a new aspect of the game, sort of a tactical consideration of what u are making ur character learn.. Can't wait to play :) |
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